I for one have stopped posting any content to lemmy.ml communities.

  • wpb@lemmy.world
    269·
    2 days ago

    Why would you want to create an echo chamber? I genuinely don’t get it, it’s the internet, if you encounter an opinion you disagree with, literally just close the tab and it’s gone

  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
    6821·
    3 days ago

    “We should defederate from everything which does not agree with my .world view and create a giant centralized echo chamber”!

    Why the fuck does every .world user suddenly want Lemmy to be Reddit?

  • Schwim Dandy@lemm.ee
    413·
    3 days ago

    I don’t think the meme makes sense. The ml users don’t seem to care how much other content is out there. They still participate as much as they’d like.

  • hierophant_nihilant@reddthat.com
    6817·
    3 days ago

    Listen. Just fuckin listen to me. The moment I joined lemmy every enthusiast was singing praise to the fediverse and how it’s easy to maintain the freedom of speach and yada yada yada. What it turned out to be is just constant quarrels between instances, defederations and crap like that while lemmy still fucking struggles to even become a mere shadow of reddit. I fucking hate reddit, I think spez should be covered in fire ants, but by god, looking at how insufferable most vocal lemmy users are, I may get back to reddit, probably as many other lemmy users already did.

  • mlg@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3716·
    3 days ago

    Another day of .world reddit migrants thinking de-federating or boycotting .ml will change literally anything.

  • jaschen@lemm.ee
    107·
    2 days ago

    I block everything from .ml because I rather not be part of Russian or China-nese psyops.

  • coherent_domain@infosec.pubEnglish
    326·
    3 days ago

    I like the idea of growing non-ml community, however, I wish larger instances do not block ML. Otherwise, they would just move to lemmy.ee or lemmy.one, just like how they moved from hexbear and grad to ml.

    It is great tankies got their own place where they can be happy, but I really don’t want to interact with them. I am emotional about issues they engage in, and emotional me is usually not the nicest version of myself.

    Social media is one of the few ways I can relax for couple hours per week outside of my job, and I really don’t want my social media experience to go full investigative journalism.

  • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
    15516·
    3 days ago

    Here’s a list of a few .ml communities and potential replacements:

    Side note the main issue with .ml is transparency. It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.

    EDIT: as people noticed I’m not including .world comms to not encourage even further concentration of activity into the largest instance. Decentralisation is important. Also I’m adding stuff that you guys suggest.

    * for specialised memes, as the category is rather large:

    • m-p{3}@lemmy.ca
      837·
      4 days ago

      I had the audacity to say that the deaths of Tiannanmen’s Square were inexcusable, no matter who started the violence, and my comment was removed under instance rule 1 (bigotry)… like wat 😂

    • cm0002@lemmy.worldOP
      577·
      4 days ago

      The .ml transparency thing is a symptom, not a root cause. The admins like and even participate in the .ml rhetoric. The rules ambiguity is intentional.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
        355·
        4 days ago

        We could argue that the root cause is that .ml admins pretending that their instance’s target audience is wider than it actually is.

        • awwwyissss@lemm.ee
          3910·
          4 days ago

          Their target audience is Westerner suckers gullible enough to have their opinions manipulated

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
            91·
            4 days ago

            Ah, they do it now? When I signed up there (~3y ago) there was no such thing.

            Anyway, it’s still a problem because most users interacting with .ml content are from other instances.

            • can@sh.itjust.works
              51·
              3 days ago

              Who knows? Lemmy gave very little feedback messages then. I found a good instance to stick with.

              Edit: it would have been around when I made this account (i.e. couple days before blackout protest and maybe they wanted to encourage signups at the several others that had recently popped up.

      • 5in1k@lemm.ee
        149·
        3 days ago

        It’s a great advertisement for communism that’s for sure. They haven’t even gotten real power and it already resembles the worst of what communism offers. They’re a bunch of wannabe Ceausescu’s.

    • awwwyissss@lemm.ee
      4213·
      4 days ago

      the main issue with .ml is transparency authoritarian propaganda with full-throated support from the admins

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
      275·
      4 days ago

      If they were banning people for shit posting on a communism community I wouldn’t have a problem. Its when you get removed banned from all communities because you said you don’t like there crappy memes

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
        399·
        4 days ago

        Or even if they had an instance-wide rule saying “don’t criticise Russia or China here”. It’s fine as long as the rules are clear.

        But no, instead they libel the users criticising either, claiming that they violated rule #1 (TL;DR “no bigots”). Even when the criticism is clearly against the government.

        And then you get a bunch of 11yos eating that ban message for breakfast, because they’re full of gullibleness and don’t get the purpose of this utterance dumb fucks.

        • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
          141·
          4 days ago

          Tbf, that admin telling someone to kill themselves wasn’t exactly a high mark for their ethics imho.

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
            71·
            4 days ago

            It isn’t a high mark, I agree. But while the “kill you are self lol.” thing could be just an admin in a really shitty day, this lack of transparency is consistent behaviour.

            • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
              92·
              4 days ago

              I get what you are saying: shittiness that happens daily is a more consistent pattern than something that happens ONCE.

              On the other hand, an admin telling someone to literally kill themselves is such an extreme event that it might be grounds for their removal as an admin?

              It’s an age-old philosophy problem: which is worse, stealing daily vs. actually killing someone once?

              Or is that a trick question, since both are kinda shitty, no?

              In any case, what happens when someone does BOTH of them?

              The answer is ofc literally nothing, when said person is protected by the instance admins who are also the developers of this codebase. I wonder what would have happened though if Huffman was caught saying something similar to the users of Reddit? Yeah, nothing, that’s right - it’s not like we would leave Reddit or anything:-P. (Except I did, and now I’ve left Lemmy too, hello from PieFed!:-D)

              • Scubus@sh.itjust.works
                41·
                3 days ago

                Afaik the admins are the creators of lemmy right? Or are they just the creators of a particular instance? If its the first i would imagine they are the only ones that can de-admin themselves, and if its the latter i would imagine no one can de-admin them

              • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
                42·
                4 days ago

                Yup, they are both shitty, and grounds to remove an admin.

                However when it’s a single event there’s still the chance that it won’t happen again, as the admin could regret it. There’s still grounds for “this won’t affect me, as a user, in the future”.

                And when it’s both, as you said, it gets even worse.

            • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
              41·
              3 days ago

              I believe this comment is the original, in which case I misremembered the situation slightly: the admin wasn’t telling the OP to kill themselves, but rather stating that they (the admin) wanted to kill the OP directly. They also doubled down on that further down, and tripled down still further, e.g. stating “I hope you die soon” (all while claiming that people with PTSD could have been triggered by a fictional depiction of an unannounced kiss among friends, yet ignoring how a mod stating irl that they wish to shoot a poster would also be a much worse trigger, for violence).

              A short synopsis is that a comic, written by a Latin American woman fwiw (Latin American people are more prone to touch each other, especially in relationships), about a game scenario wherein a girl kisses a guy friend, is removed and the admin tells the OP that they want to kill them (specifically, shoot them). All of this seems predicated on the misunderstanding that in the game you need to reach 10 hearts prior to being able to kiss someone, whereas that is actually at 8 hearts and by 10 hearts you can already safely ask for their hand in marriage… or something like that. Anyway the (fictious) guy in this comic about the game has already asked the girl out on a date at the level 8 marker, offering her a bouquet of flowers, which she accepts, and then the scenario in question occurs at the level 10 marker. This is by no means a “sexual assault” - they are in an established relationship, which took effort to build up, requiring back and forth signals from both sides, each acquiescing and signaling a readiness to not only continue it but to escalate it further. But the admin did not research the game, and instead went off unhinged with this wish for OP to die by their own hand.

              There is an ENORMOUS amount of additional backstory details in https://lemm.ee/post/45248880 if you want to read more. Ignore Lvxferre and I’s tangent on moderation practices in hexbear but definitely pay attention to Lvxferre’s top-voted explanation of the context and below that a direct discussion with the actual admin in question, or at least the beginnings of one though the admin immediately ceased responding upon the first pushback of their practices. Also here’s an extremely relevant & helpful comment: https://lemm.ee/post/45248880/15580086, and below that an additional conversation between the admin and the OP, wherein despite how vehemently the admin goes hard against OP for “sexual assault”, in describing his own comment advocating for murder of the OP he says simply “It’s just a comment bro” (the irony there is palpable!).

              Some of the original is now impossible to follow properly bc despite the admin continuing to get triggered by OP’s words in defense of their actions, we can now see only the admin’s side of the story, as OP’s have all been forcibly removed. However, that’s enough imho, bc no matter what the defense was seems irrelevant given that level of rhetoric levied against OP, describing their murder at the hands of the admin. And all for a (comic about a game about a) kiss that was reciprocated hence consensual to begin with, and among people who have already begun to become romantically involved, that the admin decided must be described as none other than sexual assault.

              Don’t get lost in all the details and miss the main point though: even if the admin had been correct about the kiss, how would that justify their own actions to say how they wanted to murder OP and hopes that they die soon?

              People continually report being disappointed by the moderation practices going on at lemmy.ml, hence moving communities off of it is a self-protective measure to try to keep Lemmy alive rather than allow such to send people away, possibly back to Reddit.

              • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
                31·
                3 days ago

                That comic is cute as hell lmao

                I love seeing kissless virgins explain that any kind of affection given without explicit verbal consent is sexual violence, no matter the circumstances

                I need you to understand that posts like these can absolutely wreck someones day and pose a barrier to the site and lemmy as a whole. So best case: it’s ableist to put it up.

                This reads like a character in a conservative political cartoon. Complaining about ableism while simultaneously telling someone you want to murder them. If this is who we’ve got moderating our online spaces, the left is fucking cooked

                • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
                  32·
                  3 days ago

                  I mean, tbf they aren’t actually “leftist”, most people agree, just play pretending to be such without seeming to really understand what that even means.

                  Also I probably went way overboard with the explanation bc the mere fact that the girl in the comic immediately reciprocates tells all the backstory needed that she did actually want it - she was merely surprised at first, not shocked and horrified as a triggering event would have been.

                  Anyway, good luck getting this admin removed - they are more entrenched on lemmy.ml than an admin would be at Reddit. Although similarly, we don’t have to remain associated with the likes of Reddit lemmy.ml and can move on to better things.

                  Sort of, except that the mod tools on Lemmy reportedly suck, especially over instance barriers. The admins seem to not be prioritizing that, which btw I am 100% in support of the fact that that is their right to do so - we are using their codebase after all (well, you are, on PieFed I’m not:-), and if we want better, it would be up to us to build it, either by contributing to Lemmy or one of its alternatives like PieFed or Mbin (although Sublinks seems dead maybe?).

        • Serinus@lemmy.world
          42·
          4 days ago

          That rule becomes clear very quickly when you’re familiar with Lemmy. (Unless you’re defederated from .ml.)

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
            202·
            4 days ago

            It is not enough; it should be explicit. Users should be able to know the rules of an instance before they even interact with it.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
        436·
        4 days ago

        I’m avoiding linking lemmy.world instances. We shouldn’t put even more eggs in that basket, you know.

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
            143·
            4 days ago

            Nobody is throwing eggs out. I’m recommending one basket instead of another, that’s it.

            • Serinus@lemmy.world
              99·
              4 days ago

              Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.

              If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.

              Get a game developer to start posting their stuff on your new instance. Get celebrities to start posting their AMAs somewhere. Get big newspapers to start their own instance.

              Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have. Federation is a feature, not a purpose, and it’s already doing its job by making .ml less relevant for a good reason.

              • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
                103·
                4 days ago

                Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.

                Yeah, because people don’t totally cross-post stuff all the time, or subscribe to multiple comms around the same topic.

                If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.

                If you’re that pissed that I’m not listing .world comms, to the point of trying to boss me around (see emphasis on imperative), you can list yourself those comms. With blackjack and hookers.

                Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.

                Okay, full stop here. Cut off the crap - in no moment I’m trying to “kill” those communities in .world, and you’re being a disingenuous liar (or worse, a bloody moron) for claiming otherwise.

                Not going to waste my time further with you.

              • Blaze (he/him)@lemmy.cafeEnglish
                3·
                3 days ago

                Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.

                !showsandmovies@lemm.ee has twice the number of active users compared to !television@lemmy.world , still people won’t move to it, keeping both communities active and preventing grow of a single community on that topic.

                If you’re so in favor of growing single communities on a topic, could you please consider redirecting to the lemm.ee community? It’s not like LW is lacking in active communities

                Same for !movies@lemm.ee and !movies@lemmy.world

                • Serinus@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  3 days ago

                  I’d generally be in favor of some kind of cooperation agreement. I’d certainly promote the larger community over the smaller one.

                  We absolutely have allowed moderators to close and redirect their community off of LW…

          • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
            2·
            3 days ago

            Did they suggest moving to the random.trsh website? This is still Lemmy, it’s still federalized and non-corporate and decentralized.

    • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
      258·
      4 days ago

      Mmhmm, mmhmm - secret laws, secret trials - definitely not authoritarian behavior at all.

    • Sergio@slrpnk.netEnglish
      163·
      4 days ago

      memes:

      and for more specialized memes:

      world news: I realize you’re avoiding lemmy.world to promote decentralization which is why you’re listing !news@beehaw.org, but note that beehaw defederated itself from lemmy.world and from several others?

    • WolfdadCigarette@threads.net@sh.itjust.works
      143·
      4 days ago

      An odd choice on their part is dessalines upvoting every comment that corresponds to a removal or ban. Feels almost as though they’ve Jerry-rigged their moderation code to an extreme degree in order to keep up with the day job levels of moderation they’re doing.

    • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
      31·
      3 days ago

      Hey. Hey, people. Just selecting each link and subscribing will vastly improve your experience here in the fediverse. Do it now, before you forget!

    • Mothra@mander.xyz
      4·
      4 days ago

      Hello! That’s a very lovely formatted table with links, however, clicking on them does nothing for me whilst clicking on links otherwise in the replies does take me to the respective communities. I don’t know if it’s just me though.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
        51·
        4 days ago

        That’s weird - are you accessing lemmy through a browser, or some app?

        Check if it works here: !funny@sh.itjust.works

        If it does then it’s the table interacting weirdly with the links, I can fix it by removing the table.

        • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
          21·
          3 days ago

          Fwiw all the links work fine for me from both PieFed and Lemmy.World base web UI even without an account. So it must be an app issue, and all the “standard” methods of access work.

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
            21·
            3 days ago

            It must be an app issue then. (Certainly not an instance issue, as Mothra is in the same instance as I do.)

            Just to be safe I’m going to convert the thing into a bullet points list.

    • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
      1628·
      4 days ago

      It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.

      I see a lot more of that on .world communities, specifically the news and political memes communities will remove comments for “misinformation” even if you’re citing academic works.

      • cm0002@lemmy.worldOP
        3211·
        4 days ago

        will remove comments for “misinformation”

        As they should

        even if you’re citing academic works.

        I’ve seen the “academic works” y’all cite, blog posts, YT videos, random books and retracted studies

        • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
          111·
          4 days ago

          random books

          So if we’re not allowed to cite books, what exactly do you want?

          blog posts, YT videos, and retracted studies

          Who is citing those? I’ve had liberals link hour long youtube essays and I just say “lol I’m not going to read that”, but I’ve not noticed anyone on the left doing that.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
        181·
        4 days ago

        If the .world admins are doing it too, it’s also bad. Thankfully I didn’t list a single .world community, although for another reason.

        • NateNate60@lemmy.world
          11·
          4 days ago

          From a formal logic perspective, your statement is true. But in real life, the more important distinction is not between “true” and “false”, but between “purposefully deceptive and ungenuine disinformation” versus “outspoken dissenting viewpoint”. And that is one that people are really bad at telling the difference between, especially if the viewpoint in particular is one that they hold very strongly.

        • zante@slrpnk.netEnglish
          157·
          4 days ago

          Classically lemmy.world.

          “Your peer reviewed academic studies are misinformation, do you not read the news ?”