• gearheart@lemm.ee
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    5 hours ago

    There two sides.

    1% and their zombies

    The rest of us.

    Let’s not split up and weaken. 💪

      • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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        5 hours ago

        The term “tankie” was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defence of the Soviet use of tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring, or who more broadly adhered to pro-Soviet positions.

        The term was literally created by Marxists to insult the kind of person who wants to use tanks to suppress a worker’s revolution. Tankies aren’t communists. They’re counterrevolutionaries who want to stop all progress made towards dissolving the state as Marx said.

        • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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          5 hours ago

          They were putting chalk marks on the doors of jews and communists. It wasn’t a worker’s revolution.

          • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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            5 hours ago

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demands_of_Hungarian_Revolutionaries_of_1956

            We demand general elections by universal, secret ballot are held throughout the country to elect a new National Assembly, with all political parties participating. We demand that the right of workers to strike be recognised.

            We demand complete revision of the norms operating in industry and an immediate and radical adjustment of salaries in accordance with the just requirements of workers and intellectuals. We demand a minimum living wage for workers.

            So you’re saying the revolution demanding minimum wage and the right to strike wasn’t a worker’s revolution? Are all tankies this right-wing or just you?

              • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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                4 hours ago

                One of the biggest and most dangerous mistakes made by Communists is the idea that a revolution can be made by revolutionaries alone. On the contrary, to be successful, all serious revolutionary work requires that the idea that revolutionaries are capable of playing the part only of the vanguard of the truly virile and advanced class must be understood and translated into action.

                - Lenin, 1922

                It probably means they read Lenin and liked his ideas a lot better than Stalin’s nonsense. Now, you were explaining how tankies oppose minimum wage and the right to strike?

  • PieMePlenty@lemmy.world
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    4 hours ago

    The “left” is way too broad of a grouping today. The classic political compass is 2D with left-right referring to economic and up-down (authoritarian-libertarian) to social policy. And even that is oversimplifying it, many saying it should be 3D. Grouping everyone into either A or B is I guess what humans do when their understanding of a topic is too narrow.

    I find this especially funny with Trump’s tariffs. You know, the mechanism with which you control the market… closing it… like leftist economic policy does. Trump is a leftist now? Any more tariffs and he’ll be a complete communist! Dismantle more government and he’ll be an anarchist! It just completely falls apart.

    • bouh@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      While this is somewhat true, in all of the west there are only 3 groups currently : liberals, fascists and leftists.

      Liberals are a diverse group, ranging from socio-democrat and liberal green parties to libertarian who leans on fascism.

      Fascists are all the brands of conservatives who leverage racism, authoritarianism and nationalism.

      Leftists are basically the groups opposed to both fascism and liberalism.

      Those are 3 objective groups. They are the groups that determine how likely they will cooperate or oppose each other, or how elections will turn.

      Some parties will be a bit in between, but that’s merely political communication. In practice a group that promote itself as a middle group is actually leaning right. This means that “leftist liberals” (who range from some green parties and movements to the socio-democrats) will always pick liberals if they must choose between them and the left. Likewise, conservatives and libertariens are leaning toward fascism when given the choice.

      The political spectrum is radicalised and triparted. You can deny this model and blur the information, but it usually means that you are leaning more to the right than you are pretending.

    • ziproot@lemmy.ml
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      3 hours ago

      This is supposed to be a tetrahedron, but I suck at drawing 3D shapes. Just imagine that anarchism is the top of the tetrahedron and that the triangle is the base.

      EDIT: Also, yellow is liberalism, if you can’t read it

      EDIT 2: I have no qualm with down-voting, but I would prefer a comment explaining what parts specifically you did not like, so I know how to not make the same mistake in the future.

      • aelixnt@lemmygrad.ml
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        24 minutes ago

        EDIT 2: I have no qualm with down-voting, but I would prefer a comment explaining what parts specifically you did not like, so I know how to not make the same mistake in the future.

        Political compasses are silly and pointless brainrot. Yes, this includes trying to make new and better galaxy brain political compasses. It especially includes that. “Meritocracy” lol.

  • zante@slrpnk.net
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    12 hours ago

    Found ⬇️ 87 Liberals who believed they were comrades. 😆

  • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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    11 hours ago

    We should make a special political spectrum just for these people. Let’s call it the imperial political spectrum.

  • culprit@lemmy.ml
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    16 hours ago

    leftist : anti-capitalism :: liberal : pro-capitalism

    Why is this so hard for some radlibs to understand? I think it is all the propaganda they passively consume.

    • lewdian69@lemmy.world
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      14 hours ago

      I’ll say it again, in the United States the term “liberal” is used to refer to liberal social ideas NOT liberal economic ideas. To the average US citizen left and liberal are synonyms. This doesn’t mean your definition isn’t correct for academics and the entire rest of the world. But this meme, and this left vs liberal argument for this post, are US based.

        • lewdian69@lemmy.world
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          14 hours ago

          I’m not sure how colloquial vocabulary usage prevents developing class consciousness. I’d potentially argue refusing to accept the evolution of language and refusing to communicate to people in the terms they use and understand inhibits said deprogramming.
          Again very US centric in this definition but it’s who needs deprogramming.

          • PunnyName@lemmy.world
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            8 hours ago

            You don’t think words can mean things?

            You just live in some kind of word salad blob?

            • lewdian69@lemmy.world
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              7 hours ago

              What? That’s literally the opposite of what I’m saying… I’m saying words can have multiple meanings depending on context.
              But the point of this was how does “liberal” having a different colloquial definition from how op was using it have anything do with “developing class consciousness” which can be done regardless of this single word?

              Yes

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            13 hours ago

            Sometimes the evolution of language isn’t so much organic as it is a political project, such as a century of red scares and socialist purges.

            Americans believe Sanders when he calls himself a socialist because they’ve lost a vocabulary for socialism itself. And they think Sanders’ centrism is “the left,” because the Overton window has shifted so far right that there is no left left.

            We can’t simply use their terms, because their terminology is both muddled and lacking.

            • lewdian69@lemmy.world
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              12 hours ago

              Sometimes the evolution of language isn’t so much organic as it is a political project, such as a century of red scares and socialist purges.

              Ok. But regardless of the cause, organic or political project, it doesn’t change the fact that the language has moved on correct?

              We can’t simply use their terms, because their terminology is both muddled and lacking.

              But there’s the rub. You/we ARE using their terms and the message is muddled and lacking BECAUSE OF the difference in perceived definitions. And as the past couple decades have shown there is zero chance of getting the American people to learn things, or unlearn as the case may be.

              I assume very few people this far down a thread into a political discussion, on Lemmy, don’t know what the Overton windowS are and how fucked the US is because of the current far right position on the left/right scales. I find it lacking and dislike it’s libertarian origins. We are even now discussing the difference of a word being used for social vs economic ideas and these two scales do not necessarily overlap.

      • bloubz@lemmygrad.ml
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        11 hours ago

        Isn’t it progressism?

        But anyway liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. The artificial differences created between conservatives and progressists is just a smoke screen to create a false debate and prevent from challenging capitalism, switching the enemy from the rulling capitalist class to the person next door with different views

    • Belly_Beanis [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      15 hours ago

      Capitalism is so all-consuming it’s like water to fish. “Capitalism” becomes synonymous with words like economy, markets, trade, laws, and government. It no longer is an ideology, but an immutable force in the universe.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        4 hours ago

        Liberalism means PRO CAPITALISM.

        The first sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism:

        Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.

        From the first paragraph of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property†:

        Private property is foundational to capitalism, an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

        Liberalism: A Counter-History (online copy)


        †Not to be confused with personal property.

        • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          That line says nothing about capitalism. Pro ownership? That is a tenet of some branches of leftism. I dont agree with corporations or the state having a monopoly on land ownership. Though the government cant come and take an individuals shit for no reason. Being an abusive billionaire though has an asterisk in the foot notes.

          Though I’d argue that anyone owning shit comes a large and wide second or 3rd to human rights.

          philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed

          It says it right there.

      • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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        5 hours ago

        Liberal means pro capitalist liberty. Nothing about personal freedom, equity and social safety nets in that.

        • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed

          Okay buddy. You guys just want to twist a good ideology into a wedge issue. The only thing vaguely “capitalist” about a liberal is the belief that the government isnt allowed to seize your shit unlawfully. The right to own property comes way after personal liberty in my book. That means billionaires dont get a pass for abusing the populace.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      16 hours ago

      Bernie is basically a modern day version of Bernstein. Though a century apart, both peddle reformism as a political pacifier, diverting energy from the radical systemic change required to dismantle capitalism. Their approaches, while superficially progressive, function as ideological traps, diverting energy from serious movements necessary to upend capitalism.

      Bernstein was a leading figure in Germany’s SPD, and he famously rejected Marxist revolutionary praxis in favor of evolutionary socialism. He argued capitalism could be gradually reformed into socialism through parliamentary means, dismissing the inevitability of class conflict. He neutralized the SPD’s revolutionary potential, channeling working-class demands into compromises like wage increases or limited welfare programs that left capitalist hierarchies intact. As Rosa Luxemburg warned in Reform or Revolution, Bernstein’s strategy reduced socialism to a “mild appendage” of liberalism, sapping the working class of its transformative agency.

      Likewise, the political project that Bernie pursued mirrors Bernstein’s trajectory. While Sanders critiques inequality and corporate power, his platform centers on social democratic reforms, such as Medicare for All, tuition-free college, a $15 minimum wage, that treat symptoms instead of root causes. By framing electoral victory as the primary objective, Sanders diverted a what could have been a millions strong grassroots movement into the Democratic Party, an institution structurally committed to maintaining capitalism. His campaigns absorbed activist energy into phone banking and voter outreach, rather than building durable, extra-parliamentary power such as workplace organizations, tenant unions, and so on.

      When Sanders conceded to Hillary Clinton and later Joe Biden, his base dissolved into disillusionment or shifted focus to lesser-evilism. Without autonomous structures to sustain pressure, the movement’s momentum evaporated similarly to how the SPD was integrated into Weimar Germany’s capitalist state. However, even if his agenda were enacted, it would exist within a neoliberal framework. Much like FDR’s New Deal coexisted with Jim Crow, imperial plunder, and union busting. Reforms within the system are always contingent on their utility to capital, and their purpose is demobilize the workers.

      A meaningful challenge to capitalism requires a long-term strategy that combines direct action, mass education, and dual power structures. Imagine if Sanders had urged supporters to unionize workplaces, organize rent strikes, and create community mutual aid networks alongside electoral engagement. Movements like MAS in Bolivia, show how grassroots power can pressure institutions while cultivating revolutionary consciousness. Instead, his campaign became a referendum on his candidacy, leaving his followers adrift after his defeat.

      Bernstein and Sanders, despite their intentions, exemplify the dead end of reformism. Their projects mistake tactical concessions for strategic victory, ignoring capitalism’s relentless drive to commodify and co-opt. In the end, the reformist approach ends up midwifing full blown fascism. By channeling energy into parliamentary politics, the SPD deprioritized mass mobilization. Unions and workers were encouraged to seek concessions rather than challenge capitalist power structures. This eroded class consciousness and left the working class unprepared to confront the nazi threat.

      When the nazis gained momentum, the SPD clung to legalistic strategies, refusing to support strikes or armed resistance against Hitler. Their faith in bourgeois democracy blinded them to the existential threat of fascism, which exploited economic despair and nationalist resentment. In the end, SPD famously allied with the nazis against the communists.

      The “progressive” wing of the Democratic Party is following in the footsteps of the SPD’s reformist trajectory. While advocating for policies like Medicare for All or climate action, it operates within capitalist constraints, undermining radical change and inadvertently fueling right-wing extremism. The Democrats absorb grassroots energy into electoral campaigns while their reliance on corporate donors ensures watered-down policies that fuel disillusionment.

      The SPD’s reformism actively enabled fascism by disorganizing the working class and legitimizing capitalist violence. Similarly, the Democratic Party’s commitment to pragmatic incrementalism sustains a system that breeds reactionary backlash. Trump is a direct product of these policies. We’re just watching history on repeat here.

    • MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml
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      15 hours ago

      Maybe for those who wish to support bombing foreigners while funnelling the military industry into their state.

      Motherfucker parades around like he’s antiwar because he voted “nay” on a single ballot initiative that was already a shoo-in and inconsequential for him to vote against. Literally a couple months later, he voted to further the funding for those military actions.

      Bernie has had blood on his hands for 30-40 years now and continues to try to wash it off with more blood.

      Someone who pretends to support the poor at home while simultaneously supporting bombing and invading the poor elsewhere sure is a role model, just not a good one.

  • SoJB@lemmy.ml
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    16 hours ago

    Ooh, the fascists aren’t gonna like this one

  • orcaA
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    18 hours ago

    The right side is just liberalism. This is what happens when the left and liberal are melded together in everyday western society/language and the water is muddied. It’s intended. It confuses people, overwhelms them, and leads them to use the apparatus that the ruling class has placed in front of us to circumvent true working class interests and movements. It’s why liberals scoff at potential allies (leftists), instead of seeing the truth: a unified working class.

    • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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      14 hours ago

      .ml people will stand by people resisting the imperialism of one country, and then condemn people resisting the imperialism of another, and still won’t realize they are effectively nationalists.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        13 hours ago

        Liberals will invent fanfiction about Marxists before genuinely trying to engage with Lenin’s analysis of Imperialism or attempt to have a genuine conversation about it.

        • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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          6 hours ago

          Marxists are great people. Leninists have fantastic ideas. And Marxist-Leninists betray everything Marx and Lenin stood for.

          “Socialism in one country” is the invention of a bourgeois dictator who sought to destroy communism because it was a threat to his power.

          Karl Marx died an anarchist.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            19 minutes ago

            No, lol. Marx wanted a fully publicly owned and planned economy free of class antagonisms, Anarchists want decentralized networks of communes. These are very different systems with very different analysis.

            Socialism in One Country is correct, Trotsky wanted to abandon building Socialism essentially and just keep trying to do revolutions elsewhere. The correct path is to not abandon building Socialism, while still supporting Socialist movements elsewhere.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            3 hours ago

            “Socialism in one country” is the invention of a bourgeois dictator who sought to destroy communism because it was a threat to his power.

            Declassified CIA report:

            Even in Stalin’s time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Misunderstandings on that subject are caused by lack of comprehension of the real nature and organization of the Communist power structure. Stalin, although holding wide powers, was merely the captain of a team and it seems obvious that Khrushchev will be the new captain.

            A lot of the cold war propaganda about the USSR turned out to be bullshit, as contemporary Western academic historians will tell you, including Domenico Losurdo.

            Karl Marx died an anarchist.

            This is laughably false by simply reading what Marx actually wrote.

              • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                3 hours ago

                Even if it were true that Marx threw out his entire life’s work and became an anarchist on his deathbed, how did the Paris Commune turn out? Why has no anarchist society lasted more than a few months before collapsing from within, or from without by capitalist/imperialist forces? Anarchism has not and can not succeed in the world we presently live in, if for no other reason than they cannot defend themselves against the imperialist forces of the monopoly capitalists who want to profit from everything everywhere.

                From Michael Parenti’s 1997 book Blackshirts and Reds:

                But a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves through direct participation instead of being run by Leninists, Stalinists, Castroites, or other ill-willed, power-hungry, bureaucratic cabals of evil men who betray revolutions. Unfortunately, this “pure socialism” view is ahistorical and nonfalsifiable; it cannot be tested against the actualities of history. It compares an ideal against an imperfect reality, and the reality comes off a poor second. It imagines what socialism would be like in a world far better than this one, where no strong state structure or security force is required, where none of the value produced by workers needs to be expropriated to rebuild society and defend it from invasion and internal sabotage.

                The pure socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

                The pure socialists had a vision of a new society that would create and be created by new people, a society so transformed in its fundaments as to leave little opportunity for wrongful acts, corruption, and criminal abuses of state power. There would be no bureaucracy or self-interested coteries, no ruthless conflicts or hurtful decisions. When the reality proves different and more difficult, some on the Left proceed to condemn the real thing and announce that they “feel betrayed” by this or that revolution.