I won’t downvote anything
Marx never said centrally plan the economy.
Lenin was a mushroom
Tankies don’t have a solution for what to do when you and your homies are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, firmly holding each other by the hand, and one friend won’t shut up about how everybody should go into the marsh.
Maybe anarchists are necessary to help keep the revolutionary state honest. However, I don’t know if I’d go so far as to call myself an anti-Leninist.
Honestly, I find there’s a lot of overlap between Marxism and Anarcho-syndicalism, and I think this is essentially the correct way for the workforce to be organized.
For a while, that’s probably how I would have sorted myself, but how are the anarcho-syndicalists on taking power from capital and wielding it? How does that differ from Lenin’s guidance? (Part of why I don’t call myself an anti-Leninist is that I haven’t read any Lenin lol.)
As far I’m aware, Anarcho-syndicalists don’t really provide a solution for changing the system as a whole. Meanwhile, Lenin focused specifically on achieving a socialist revolution. Lenin primarily dealt with the task of organizing and education the masses to create a revolutionary force that would be able to seize power from the capitalists. The two most prominent works I’d recommend starting with would be What Is To be Done? and The State and Revolution.
Anarcho syndicalism is snakey af
When have the anarchists accomplished anything? The people itself should keep their goverment honest.
Every day; all sorts of stuff from simply feeding people to high level assassinations, including a POTUS. Anarchism is a means by which the people can embarrass the government and compel corrective action to its deficiencies.
Paid holidays, 8 hour shifts, women’s ability to vote, same-sex marriages and LGTBIQ+ rights in general… Those are ideals and achievements that started in anarchism.
you gotta be delusional if you think those things were accomplished by anarchists lmao
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Isn’t always true. Just because a country/political faction opposes US hegemony doesn’t automatically make them morally superior.
Isn’t it implied by using this proverb that you know they have some bad qualities?
Same as supporting the ‘lesser evil’? Also, it’s hardly impossible to not be morally superior to these scumbags.That’s not what MLs actually believe, we have the concept of critical support. It’s the act of backing a cause, group, or individual while maintaining a clear-eyed critique of their flaws, contradictions, or harmful actions. It’s not unconditional endorsement but a pragmatic stance that balances solidarity with accountability.
Even tho we don’t care about it, the US holds no moral high ground on any country. The US certainly doesn’t care about it either when they support “socialist” forces in Syria, like the SDF, while also supporting headchoppers like HTS. Everything goes as long as it advances their interests.
Oh yeah of course, the US is an imperialist, neocolonialist power that does a tremendous amount of harm in the world.
I’m an anarchist, so you won’t find me singing the praises of any state power, for sure not the US. They do what all states do, consolidate centralized power and dominate as many people as they can.
My point was that some folks act like anything that opposes the interests of the US is automatically good, and that’s not true, ISIS opposes the US, but they’re a pretty fucked up group of religious extremists, same with the Westboro Baptist Church hate group, who also oppose the US strongly, but are total scumbags.
Regionally reactionary groups like Hamas can find themselves fighting for a globally progressive cause, just like regionally progressive groups like the SDF can find themselves strengthening globally reactionary causes.
US imperialism is the main reactionary force in the world, so yes entities that legitimately end up opposing US interests, regardless of their internal politics, end up fighting for a progressive cause and deserve my critical support.
On another note, ISIS is straight up an US pawn.
Edit: SDF straight up went masks off
Mass society in the West doesn’t exist anymore. You’re unfit to achieve anything you want to achieve and you lack the tools to elaborate to yourself why you keep losing. The world moved on and so should your politics.
We have China
Have you ever spoken with an urban young mainlander? They are the most individualistic people on Earth. Beats any gun-bearing Texan everyday.
you have personal bias imo
Your idea is that… any politics with roots in the 20th century are irrelevant?
When exactly did everyone on the planet wake up and decide history doesn’t matter?
History does matter. In the same way mass parties wouldn’t have worked in 15th century Europe, they won’t work now. Learning history is useful to understand how entire system of thought and action survived way past their relevance, doomed and incapable of understanding their own demise.
How are you defining mass parties?
When did they stop working, and why?
Both questions would deserve a book each to really answer, but I will try.
How are you defining mass parties? Relatively large participatory base, strategy decided democratically, presence on the local territory and ties with communities. Here though I was more framing them as “parties designed for a mass society”, where their strategy relies on the possibility to reduce the individual to mass, as in the case of workers parties. A one-size-fits-all organization, where one strategy, one identity and one theory of change is shared by millions of people.
When did they stop working, and why?
There are at least two big elements: the first is the end of mass society. Once we became all individuals, the mechanism of identification in a collective entity became harder. It got even harder over time, when most young people have no examples or memory of anybody around them ever acting collectively.
The second element is informational: mass parties are incredibly slow. The analysis-synthesis-action-assessment most ML parties are based on is predicated on the assumption that the social and political phenomena you’re working with don’t change too fast and between the analysis phase and the action phase, the underlying phenomenon is relatively stable. If the analysis is too slow or the phenomenon (i.e. specific industries, specific political landscapes, etc etc) change too fast, your analysis is always late. Correct, but useless. This renders anybody involved in such ecosystems (not just mass parties), very aware of the motivations of their own failure, but completely incapable of escaping them.
French communist party
What does that mean? The PCF is pretty much a dying party with basically no relevance.
I agree btw
Lennin’s “state and revolution” and accepting China as a communist country are in conflict with each other. Most tankies or “Marxist-Lenninist” are distorting both Marx and Lennin. Communism in one country can not exists for long without a global overthrow of the capitalist class. Yes, the state in these various countries control the economy more or less, but who controls the state? My assertion, and most other Trotskyists, is that its not the workers.
I have never seen a Trotskyist on Lemmy before now.
We addressed this point on Prolewiki: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_China#Abandoning_of_Marxism/Capitalist_restoration
https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_China#Democracy_and_popular_opinion
China is actually a democracy
A special kind of democracy where the leaders aren’t elected huh? You have simultaneously redefined the word democracy and practiced doublethink
Unlike in bourgeois democracies, which are really bourgeois oligarchies, representatives in in China actually are elected by the proletariat instead of pre-selected by the bourgeoisie, and it shows.
- Most in China Call Their Nation A Democracy, Most in U.S. Say America Isn’t
- Long-term survey reveals Chinese government satisfaction
- Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says [UN] Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding
- China’s Energy Use Per Person Surpasses Europe’s for First Time
- At 54, China’s average retirement age is too low
- China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data
- Chinese Scientists Are Leaving the United States [for China]
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Tankie is a broad term. Are u just an idealist commie or do u legitimately support genocidal regimes?
I would like you to look into the commonalities in teaching methods between your beliefs/community, religion, neo Nazis, and ideological indoctrination in general. Look at the classic applications such as redefining meanings of words, the complete denial of descenting opinions simply because they are descenting, the belief in something greater than oneself etc etc.
I would like you to write down your most fundamental beliefs then right down your best argument for those beliefs then I want you to write you best argument to disprove that belief.
I would like you to come up with as many contradictions within your own ideology as possible without rationalising that contradictory belief to yourself.
I’d like u to read nineteen eighty four and then write an argument how the practice’s of big brother have been used to indoctrinate you. Then right an argument against that argument.
I’m not here to tell you how to live or what to think I’d just like you to legitimately challenge your own thoughts to the best of your ability.
Good luck on your journey to becoming a free thinker.
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I’d like u to read nineteen eighty four and then write an argument how the practice’s of big brother have been used to indoctrinate you.
I’d like you to read Isaac Asimov’s review of 1984, followed by Orwell’s review of Mein Kampf, and finally the Orwell’s list wikipedia article, and then to ponder what you yourself might have been indoctrinated by.
Isn’t 1984 a fictional book?
Have heard people say online that Inventing Reality and Manufactured Consent are better than that for analysis.
Haven’t read any of those books tho.
Which would be better?1984 was intended as fictional. Eric Blair wrote it in 1948.
I’m not sure that it is anymore.
His books are all pretty good. “Down and out in Paris and London” (or is it London and Paris? It’s been a minute) is one of my favourites.
Don’t you mean George Orwell?
And yes, it’s fictional, but it’s a condemnation of Stalinism.
George Orwell’s real name was Eric Blair.
Blair was a communist, from what I remember, but started to see what socialism was really like and gradually reverted his attitude.
Animal Farm is along the same line but an easy read for kids.
152·1 day agoRacist, imperial cop, rapist, worker hating, Eric Blair? That guy?
I know he started as a communist/socialist but began to change his mind over time.
His books changed their political leanings over time; for my interpretation at least.
Meh if you want a good critique of the Bolsheviks by somebody who actually was an old Bolshevik check out the book We instead.
