Why do the mass killers of the fossil fuel industry walk free while the heroes trying to stop them are imprisoned? asks Guardian columnist George Monbiot
They got sentenced for vandalizing irreplaceable art, not for ‘throwing soup’.
People who damage culturally significant, irreplaceable things to get attention for their cause deserve this kind of punishment or worse. They have the same mindset as the Taliban blowing up cliff carvings. And they lack the intelligence and creativity to bring attention to their cause without destroying things.
Do we need to fix our societies destruction of our own planet’s habitability? Yes without question. This isn’t the way.
Well it seems like society and the justice system think it is okay then. So if the justice system says what they do is okay then how can you still have the opinion that it’s just to punish people who poured soup on glass?
What defines “irreplaceable art” and why do we have a legal or moral obligation to protect it? Why does this allow for the private ownership of art?
How much of the earth’s resources are we willing to dedicate to “culturally significant, irreplaceable things” such as buildings, artwork, graveyards, and civilizations? Who gets to decide what from modern times needs to be available in ten thousand years?
I come from a hoarding home where everything was important. My approach to preservation is colored through this lens. At some point we either exist solely to preserve artifacts created before us or we learn to let go. Not every Van Gogh or Picasso in a museum’s collection will be put on display and many museums struggle to maintain their hidden collections full of what curators would honestly call junk art of interest to only the most specialized of scholar. Assuming we only keep the “best” samples (that’s another debatable topic) there will be a point when we simply cannot collect any more art or culturally relevant things any more, similar to the eventual trade off between graves and arable land.
Hoarding aside, why are you not arguing to prosecute oil as hard as these folks? The number of indigenous cultural sites across the world destroyed by drilling astronomically outweighs the number of paintings with soup on them. Sure, we can prosecute both, but I don’t see you saying that either.
A good place to start would be art made by a great artist that can’t make it anymore, usually because they are dead.
How much of the earth’s resources are we willing to dedicate to “culturally significant, irreplaceable things”
I don’t think the footprint of the world’s art museums would even show up on a chart when you consider waste or climate impact.
I’m not arguing to “prosecute oil as hard as these folks” because that’s not the discussion we’re having. That’s just what-about-ism. But since you asked, I think just about every C level in the oil industry should be in prison for the harm they have caused and the coverups they conspired to perpetrate while doing it. That’s not relevant to the discussion of ‘activists’ trying to destroy art to get headlines.
I agree with their message, I completely disagree with the method of delivery.
So only art in museums is culturally significant? Made by artists who are dead? What about buildings? Religious places? Graveyards? Note that these are things I called out in my first comment so I’m not trying to move the goalposts here. You highlighted the Taliban destroying cultural places so, by your definition, we must include those and since we can’t displace any new ones must be added.
I completely disagree that the footprint of the world’s art museums is minuscule. Museums today already have problems with storage. In order to meet your definition for art, museums must continue to expand their collections. As the number of people grows, the number of artists grows, increasing the supply of art. How do you define “great artist” without proportionally increasing the number? As fields specialize, so too do the “great artists” that define mediums.
What about books? Records? Movies? How do we decide what to keep here?
So you’re okay with oil companies destroying the planet which every person on this earth values? You’re okay with oil companies being given the pen to write the laws for climate protests? You’re okay with Judges taking bribes and providing harsh sentences to climate protesters?
You’re okay to with some corrupt asshole stealing our future from us (you’re probably part of the awful operations, who knows?)
You have answered nothing and read way more into the word “so” than was actually there. It’s pretty clear you’re just here to be mad so have fun with that!
You say that like they were somehow shocked to find plexiglass in front of these paintings, and somehow didn’t see it or didn’t have the time (casually perusing a museum) to pivot to a different painting.
You’re assuming that they scouted this and carefully planned it to ensure they wouldn’t cause damage. I doubt that.
This also assumes that the painting’s protection is perfect. What if there is a flaw in the glass or a seam that lets the liquid get through somewhere? What if they accidentally threw the can while throwing the soup and it cracked something? Would you blame shift to the museum for not protecting their artwork from vandals properly? That would be ridiculous. I don’t want to see every painting behind a glass case when I go to an art museum, either.
It’s not worth the risk to such a artistic treasure just for attention seeking or ‘awareness’ of something totally unrelated. Last I checked Van Gogh wasn’t part of the petroleum industry when he was alive. This kind of vandalism is stupid.
The should be doing shit like this to petroleum company offices.
Are you… seriously advocating for vandalizing Ferraris here? What the fuck?
What they’re doing is fundamentally harmless. You do realize that these paintings are behind glass, yeah? It’s not like they’re throwing soup directly onto canvases. They’re damaging museum glass at worst. The dollar amount of the damage is relatively minor, the whole point is civil disobedience and to draw media attention.
I don’t really support defacing art either, but at the same time, it’s not like the art is gonna matter if the planet burns, is it? The only people who’ll still be around to enjoy it are rich people, and they’ll probably just ditch it the moment they realize it doesn’t have a monetary value anymore due to societal collapse.
So what’s the point? Throw soup at art (in Minecraft). Throw grenades at yachts (in Minecraft). None of this will matter soon (in the real world).
Of course it won’t matter if the planet burns. But as a great philospher once said, “until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.” Destroying art can’t be undone. Throwing hand grenades at yachts would be way better, assuming nobody gets hurt. I still don’t condone it (because somebody will get hurt), but nobody is going to give a shit if some asshole’s yacht goes to the bottom of the marina.
They got sentenced for vandalizing irreplaceable art, not for ‘throwing soup’.
People who damage culturally significant, irreplaceable things to get attention for their cause deserve this kind of punishment or worse. They have the same mindset as the Taliban blowing up cliff carvings. And they lack the intelligence and creativity to bring attention to their cause without destroying things.
Do we need to fix our societies destruction of our own planet’s habitability? Yes without question. This isn’t the way.
I’m sorry I didn’t realize we were all in the art museum to see the frame.
Removed unnecessary caveat
Boy you’re going to hate to find out what oil companies are doing
Just because they are immeasurably worse doesn’t mean what these people did is ok.
Then how come they’re not being put in jail?
Because they own significant portions of the government.
That’s terrible! We should organize a protest.
Maybe we should stage a harmless but seemingly extreme act, to point out this hypocrisy and to bring attention to the cause 🤔
Well it seems like society and the justice system think it is okay then. So if the justice system says what they do is okay then how can you still have the opinion that it’s just to punish people who poured soup on glass?
I come from a hoarding home where everything was important. My approach to preservation is colored through this lens. At some point we either exist solely to preserve artifacts created before us or we learn to let go. Not every Van Gogh or Picasso in a museum’s collection will be put on display and many museums struggle to maintain their hidden collections full of what curators would honestly call junk art of interest to only the most specialized of scholar. Assuming we only keep the “best” samples (that’s another debatable topic) there will be a point when we simply cannot collect any more art or culturally relevant things any more, similar to the eventual trade off between graves and arable land.
Hoarding aside, why are you not arguing to prosecute oil as hard as these folks? The number of indigenous cultural sites across the world destroyed by drilling astronomically outweighs the number of paintings with soup on them. Sure, we can prosecute both, but I don’t see you saying that either.
A good place to start would be art made by a great artist that can’t make it anymore, usually because they are dead.
I don’t think the footprint of the world’s art museums would even show up on a chart when you consider waste or climate impact.
I’m not arguing to “prosecute oil as hard as these folks” because that’s not the discussion we’re having. That’s just what-about-ism. But since you asked, I think just about every C level in the oil industry should be in prison for the harm they have caused and the coverups they conspired to perpetrate while doing it. That’s not relevant to the discussion of ‘activists’ trying to destroy art to get headlines.
I agree with their message, I completely disagree with the method of delivery.
So only art in museums is culturally significant? Made by artists who are dead? What about buildings? Religious places? Graveyards? Note that these are things I called out in my first comment so I’m not trying to move the goalposts here. You highlighted the Taliban destroying cultural places so, by your definition, we must include those and since we can’t displace any new ones must be added.
I completely disagree that the footprint of the world’s art museums is minuscule. Museums today already have problems with storage. In order to meet your definition for art, museums must continue to expand their collections. As the number of people grows, the number of artists grows, increasing the supply of art. How do you define “great artist” without proportionally increasing the number? As fields specialize, so too do the “great artists” that define mediums.
What about books? Records? Movies? How do we decide what to keep here?
You’re putting words in my mouth so I can’t really respond to the first part.
Some people value art, some don’t. It’s ok if you don’t, it’s not okay to destroy what other people value.
So you’re okay with oil companies destroying the planet which every person on this earth values? You’re okay with oil companies being given the pen to write the laws for climate protests? You’re okay with Judges taking bribes and providing harsh sentences to climate protesters?
You’re okay to with some corrupt asshole stealing our future from us (you’re probably part of the awful operations, who knows?)
Nope. I can be against all that and against vandalizing art.
You have answered nothing and read way more into the word “so” than was actually there. It’s pretty clear you’re just here to be mad so have fun with that!
They didn’t damage it. They did throw soup at it.
Their tactic is also working. You’re aware of the event, who they are, what they stand for, and why they did it.
Their lack of success is irrelevant. They tried to damage it.
I was already aware we’re destroying the planet. I don’t need stupid kids trying to destroy art in a museum to inform me about that.
You say that like they were somehow shocked to find plexiglass in front of these paintings, and somehow didn’t see it or didn’t have the time (casually perusing a museum) to pivot to a different painting.
You’re assuming that they scouted this and carefully planned it to ensure they wouldn’t cause damage. I doubt that.
This also assumes that the painting’s protection is perfect. What if there is a flaw in the glass or a seam that lets the liquid get through somewhere? What if they accidentally threw the can while throwing the soup and it cracked something? Would you blame shift to the museum for not protecting their artwork from vandals properly? That would be ridiculous. I don’t want to see every painting behind a glass case when I go to an art museum, either.
It’s not worth the risk to such a artistic treasure just for attention seeking or ‘awareness’ of something totally unrelated. Last I checked Van Gogh wasn’t part of the petroleum industry when he was alive. This kind of vandalism is stupid.
The should be doing shit like this to petroleum company offices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Stop_Oil#Protests
They do. And those protests get little coverage and large prison sentences.
Seems like they did:
deleted by creator
The people who vandalize Ferraris and private jets also get into the news and don’t damage irreplaceable cultural artifacts.
They really really don’t though.
I haven’t heard of these events.
Are you… seriously advocating for vandalizing Ferraris here? What the fuck?
What they’re doing is fundamentally harmless. You do realize that these paintings are behind glass, yeah? It’s not like they’re throwing soup directly onto canvases. They’re damaging museum glass at worst. The dollar amount of the damage is relatively minor, the whole point is civil disobedience and to draw media attention.
Your climate change is really inconvenient for me. Can you reschedule for 10 years? \s
can you provide a news link for that?
I don’t really support defacing art either, but at the same time, it’s not like the art is gonna matter if the planet burns, is it? The only people who’ll still be around to enjoy it are rich people, and they’ll probably just ditch it the moment they realize it doesn’t have a monetary value anymore due to societal collapse.
So what’s the point? Throw soup at art (in Minecraft). Throw grenades at yachts (in Minecraft). None of this will matter soon (in the real world).
Of course it won’t matter if the planet burns. But as a great philospher once said, “until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.” Destroying art can’t be undone. Throwing hand grenades at yachts would be way better, assuming nobody gets hurt. I still don’t condone it (because somebody will get hurt), but nobody is going to give a shit if some asshole’s yacht goes to the bottom of the marina.
I like how confidently wrong you are.