Last election the choice was between Palestinian genocide and Palestinian genocide. You are smoking crack if you think the oligarchy is ever going to provide you with a meaningful choice to loosen their hold on you through the civic ritual of voting.
So you knowingly voted to throw Palestinians under the extermination bus, is that it? And you consider yourself to be on the right side of history? And you never considered that perhaps your slavish ideological devotion to following the rules of a fascist political system was slow-boiling you into a fascist?
Ukranian genocide
You’re talking about the ten years of ethnic cleansing the Ukranian nazi government was doing to ethnic Russians within its borders, right? You wouldn’t possibly consider yourself to be against genocide while supporting these guys, right? Because nobody could possibly be that deluded, right? Tell me you’re not that programmed.
Bro you’ve been reduced to yelling “This is what you wanted!!!” at the people telling you none of this was necessary, it’s pathetic. Every day liberals prove there is no bottom to how low they will go to drown out their conscience and prject their guilt
Well, you got your “pragmatic” genocide and then some. You got your guy in to stop Trump, and he immediately shit the bed. Hindenburg preceeds Hitler. Here we are again. You’ve learned nothing.
Please let the previous election go. It’s over. Nobody here is advocating for or against what’s already in the rear view mirror. And anyway, what we said on Lemmy last year had fuck-all effect on the election. Let’s “optimistically” say we affected 1,000 votes. Trump didn’t win by a hair’s breadth. What we said didn’t materially matter w/r/t/ the election. And that’s not even what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to agitate & educate people to think beyond/outside of the election cycle, and to break people out of myopic electoralism.
All the people advocating for “less evil” always end up destroying their own argument by immediately descending into apologism and denial to defend that evil. I’m not going to “vote for the lesser evil” if doing so turns me into a genocide denying ghoul, which it certainly has for everyone I’ve seen advocating it.
orange traitor
Yeah, that’s the problem with Trump: he’s not loyal enough to the nation that you yourself have admitted has a bipartisan commitment to genocide. This is like condemning Himmler for being a traitor to Nazi Germany. Seriously, you just can’t stop yourself from giving up the game: you don’t actually think the Democrats are “lesser evil”, you don’t think they’re evil at all.
It’s not wrong to say regulatory capture is a problem, it just doesn’t go far enough. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.
No, he’s not. Despite that, there sure are a lot of folks here who were eager to hand him the keys of the country, and continue to to defend their choice.
Trump already has the keys. That ship has sailed. If he has a third term it will be through extralegal measures, not the ballot box.
Take genocide for example, which seems to be the theme of the thread: we didn’t get the choice of no genocide, our only options were more vs less. Those are shitty options, but if we have that wiggle room, it’s worth voting for less in order to prevent more. Damage mitigation. Still genocide, still shitty options, but tangibly distinct options.
Whether it would have been a “lesser” genocide is unfalsifiable. We’ll never really know. But I don’t have the faith in it that you have. I’m not sure what a more competent genocidal administration would have done.
Consider what many US Palestinians did: threaten to withhold their votes if Harris didn’t say there was at least some daylight between herself and Biden regarding Gazans. And she wouldn’t even do that much.
But that’s how you use the vote, if you use it at all. You use it as leverage. If the Democrats know you’ll “vote Blue no matter who” or “vote Blue no matter what,” then they’ll ignore you altogether, because you’re already in their pocket. You’ve made yourself irrelevant.
Despite that, there sure are a lot of folks here who were eager to hand him the keys of the country, and continue to to defend their choice.
Mate, everyone told you people that Democrats would lose if they didn’t change tact, but you refused. You were the ones who eagerly handed Trump the keys to the country!
our only options were more vs less.
No, you were just a genocide denier when it was your team doing it. It took Trump winning for you to actually admit the extent of the genocide.
Last election was a choice between Palestinian genocide vs significantly more Palestinian genocide + Ukrainian genocide + it’s looking Venezuelan genocide is about to be kicking off + who the fuck knows, we’ve got three more years of this shitshow and that’s assuming we even have another election.
You are doing the thing right now. The other choice is “none of those things,” actually, and you don’t get that by voting harder because as you’ve just demonstrated you were not given the choice. Is any genocide acceptable to you? The line is never “less genocide,” it is “no genocide.”
There was a choice. Primaries. Americans rejected every option of no genocide, so the final round had genocide A or genocide B. Same way that they rejected Bernie Sanders a few times.
It’s extremely telling that even you “lesser evil” BlueMAGA types can’t being yourselves to actually be honest about what you supported: you have to make up this bullshit white washed version of the Democrats that wasn’t entirely all in on genocide. Clearly even you know the lesser evil position as it actually exists is indefensible.
You’re projecting. Y’all need to get that under control.
Alright, fuck off. If you’re going to just start sprouting random pre-loaded accusations like this that don’t even apply to the context at hand, I’m just going to tell you to fuck off back to reddit and not read the rest of your post.
Oh my God, is there anything more obnoxious that reddit debate lords that have the Wikipedia list of logical fallacies open in another tab, but never bother to actually learn what they mean, so they just copy paste them like they’re magical debate incantations that win arguments.
And no, “projection” is not a logical fallacy, you absolute dumb ass. Accusing people of it to dismiss their argument is though, you fucking idiot. Go back to Reddit, for fucks sake.
Last election the choice was between Palestinian genocide and Palestinian genocide. You are smoking crack if you think the oligarchy is ever going to provide you with a meaningful choice to loosen their hold on you through the civic ritual of voting.
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So you knowingly voted to throw Palestinians under the extermination bus, is that it? And you consider yourself to be on the right side of history? And you never considered that perhaps your slavish ideological devotion to following the rules of a fascist political system was slow-boiling you into a fascist?
You’re talking about the ten years of ethnic cleansing the Ukranian nazi government was doing to ethnic Russians within its borders, right? You wouldn’t possibly consider yourself to be against genocide while supporting these guys, right? Because nobody could possibly be that deluded, right? Tell me you’re not that programmed.
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This line is smoking gun proof that everyone in this thread trying to engage with you is talking exclusively over your head.
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Bro you’ve been reduced to yelling “This is what you wanted!!!” at the people telling you none of this was necessary, it’s pathetic. Every day liberals prove there is no bottom to how low they will go to drown out their conscience and prject their guilt
Well, you got your “pragmatic” genocide and then some. You got your guy in to stop Trump, and he immediately shit the bed. Hindenburg preceeds Hitler. Here we are again. You’ve learned nothing.
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Please let the previous election go. It’s over. Nobody here is advocating for or against what’s already in the rear view mirror. And anyway, what we said on Lemmy last year had fuck-all effect on the election. Let’s “optimistically” say we affected 1,000 votes. Trump didn’t win by a hair’s breadth. What we said didn’t materially matter w/r/t/ the election. And that’s not even what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to agitate & educate people to think beyond/outside of the election cycle, and to break people out of myopic electoralism.
All the people advocating for “less evil” always end up destroying their own argument by immediately descending into apologism and denial to defend that evil. I’m not going to “vote for the lesser evil” if doing so turns me into a genocide denying ghoul, which it certainly has for everyone I’ve seen advocating it.
Yeah, that’s the problem with Trump: he’s not loyal enough to the nation that you yourself have admitted has a bipartisan commitment to genocide. This is like condemning Himmler for being a traitor to Nazi Germany. Seriously, you just can’t stop yourself from giving up the game: you don’t actually think the Democrats are “lesser evil”, you don’t think they’re evil at all.
He’s not our man. Previously:
The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.
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Trump already has the keys. That ship has sailed. If he has a third term it will be through extralegal measures, not the ballot box.
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Whether it would have been a “lesser” genocide is unfalsifiable. We’ll never really know. But I don’t have the faith in it that you have. I’m not sure what a more competent genocidal administration would have done.
Consider what many US Palestinians did: threaten to withhold their votes if Harris didn’t say there was at least some daylight between herself and Biden regarding Gazans. And she wouldn’t even do that much.
But that’s how you use the vote, if you use it at all. You use it as leverage. If the Democrats know you’ll “vote Blue no matter who” or “vote Blue no matter what,” then they’ll ignore you altogether, because you’re already in their pocket. You’ve made yourself irrelevant.
Mate, everyone told you people that Democrats would lose if they didn’t change tact, but you refused. You were the ones who eagerly handed Trump the keys to the country!
No, you were just a genocide denier when it was your team doing it. It took Trump winning for you to actually admit the extent of the genocide.
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Oh, I thought leftists on Lemmy handed him the election. And hear you are now, doing the thing that BlueMAGA keeps telling me made Trump win.
100% correct. You’re up and down this thread making the false claim that Democrats were less supportive of the Palestinian genocide.
Except for the part where you will engage in genocide minimisation to defend the Democrats.
You are doing the thing right now. The other choice is “none of those things,” actually, and you don’t get that by voting harder because as you’ve just demonstrated you were not given the choice. Is any genocide acceptable to you? The line is never “less genocide,” it is “no genocide.”
Liberals can have a little genocide, as a treat.
There was a choice. Primaries. Americans rejected every option of no genocide, so the final round had genocide A or genocide B. Same way that they rejected Bernie Sanders a few times.
At that point, the lesser evil position is which ever will destroy the USs ability to do genocide the fastest
Yeah, the problem with empires is they can only destroy themselves, usually. Which they are on a tremendous path of doing.
ie: the lesser evil position is just Accelerationism
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It’s extremely telling that even you “lesser evil” BlueMAGA types can’t being yourselves to actually be honest about what you supported: you have to make up this bullshit white washed version of the Democrats that wasn’t entirely all in on genocide. Clearly even you know the lesser evil position as it actually exists is indefensible.
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Alright, fuck off. If you’re going to just start sprouting random pre-loaded accusations like this that don’t even apply to the context at hand, I’m just going to tell you to fuck off back to reddit and not read the rest of your post.
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Oh my God, is there anything more obnoxious that reddit debate lords that have the Wikipedia list of logical fallacies open in another tab, but never bother to actually learn what they mean, so they just copy paste them like they’re magical debate incantations that win arguments.
And no, “projection” is not a logical fallacy, you absolute dumb ass. Accusing people of it to dismiss their argument is though, you fucking idiot. Go back to Reddit, for fucks sake.
You people really are hell bent on reducing the word “genocide” to meaninglessness
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