• barsquid@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Once I saw a guy arguing for pure capitalism because otherwise the state would have to force people to work with threats of incarceration or whatever.

    It’s like some sort of trolley problem delusion. It is fine shoving desperate people into whatever jobs they can get, but only if the Invisible Hand does it. It’s fine if the threat is homelessness and starvation, but only if the Invisible Hand does it.

  • swan@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Yeah, but that interview on Fox News really killed the movement pretty hard lol

  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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    5 months ago

    What? A left wing movement that uses the wrong name to make people understand what they truly mean? Really? Nah, that would never happen!

    • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Adversaries to a movement will split hairs and redefine a movement anyways.

      That’s all we are seeing here. Look at now they tried to frame Black Lived Matters, something quite clean cut.

      • Steve@communick.news
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        5 months ago

        No. We suck at naming things. And communication in general.
        “Black Lives Matter Too” would have been more clear.
        “Replace the Police” would have been better also.

        Even mainstream Democrats suck at it. They should be shouting every day, how they’re taking on big corp’s, going after antitrust abuses and unpaid taxes; While refusing to audit anyone making less than $250,000. But instead they just keep saying some variation of “The economy’s great, stupid.”

        • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          They would have willfully misinterpreted both of those alternatives and convinced you they were poorly named anyways.

          • Steve@communick.news
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            5 months ago

            They may have willfully misrepresented, but couldn’t really have an excuse to mistakenly misinterpret them. That was our bad.

            • Nevoic@lemm.ee
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              5 months ago

              Is your argument that a genuine, good faith interpretation of “Black Lives Matter” is “Only Black Lives Matter”?

              This isn’t how English works. If I say “I like your mom” to an SO, they wouldn’t interpret it as I don’t like them and instead like their mom. I don’t have to say “I like your mom too”.

              • Steve@communick.news
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                5 months ago

                Anyone coming back with “all lives matter” proves the ease of confusion over the slogan.

                My own immediate response to it was “Yah, of course they do. All lives matter. Why single out Black lives? The police shouldn’t be killing anyone.”

                I’m not going to try mind read anyone else.

  • Cipher22@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago
    1. 60 seems optimistic
    2. Plenty of “antiwork supporters” do believe option 1
    3. Your stance is valid
  • OpenStars@discuss.online
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    5 months ago

    I mean… probably originally, but that’s not all that it is, nowadays. Some people really do unironically mean the former, in that sub on the social network that shall not be named (though I haven’t checked it for… hrm, almost a year now!:-P).

    • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      5 months ago

      I can’t speak for living like a king but we were able to recently confirmed again the whole lazy proletariat myth is a capitalist fiction. During the COVID-19 lockdown we had furloughed workers with a perfect opportunity to just lounge for months, and they just couldn’t. Healthy adults just can’t couch potato and watch TV for two weeks. When they try, they get cabin fever and start leaning how to widdle whittle wood into bear sculptures. The Great Resignation was driven partially by lockdown hobbies that became lucrative,

      I, personally, can couch-potato out for weeks, but at my worst, I have slept for months, getting up only to eat and excrete. I didn’t sleep always; sometimes I’d lie there awake but my inertia would be so great I couldn’t lift a hand. This is avolition a symptom of mental illness, such as major depression. When doctors noticed that I can make like a log for almost a year, I was diagnosed and qualify for disability.

      When all your workers are lethargic or crabby or stealing all the nitrous canisters, maybe your workplace is toxic. Maybe the managers aren’t actually managing but acting like children who need to be handled. Or maybe you’re not paying them enough to get out of precarity, which is a major cause of chronic mental illness like major depression.

    • MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net
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      5 months ago

      You mean that sub that saw a huge surge in subscribers, increased bad faith actors, and general chaos ahead of the infamous mod schism that shredded any credibility that might have been hanging on?

      As someone who watched it happen in real time, no one will ever be able to convince me that all of that was a coincidence.

      • OpenStars@discuss.online
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        5 months ago

        Um… you probably meant the latter, as in the second one, right? Eating Doritos while slaves do all the hard work - presuming we aren’t talking about non-sentient robots but actual people - sounds kinda selfish to me:-P.

        Edit: to clarify, I’m down with the live like a King 👑 and eat Doritos 🔺 parts, it’s only the pesky slavery 🤕 part that I’m against!

          • TexasDrunk@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Best I can do is bad AI art and music to take away the hobbies of a lot of people and to stop paying people who do that for a living.

          • OpenStars@discuss.online
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            5 months ago

            Oh man, so very many movies would disagree with you there. “I, Robot” and “Terminator” come to mind, and “The Matrix”. But perhaps most important: “Wall-E”, as in those fat fuckers sat down and simply… never stood up again. (yeah, you can tell I am old from my selection:-D)

            Don’t get me wrong, Doritos are effing delicious! But also, we need some amount of balance in our lives to help make them worth living. What we gain in comfort there, we lose in autonomy, and that’s not a trade-off I would willingly make, even if I could. I mean, I’m not insane - or Amish - I use technology and I enjoy comfort, but I also value the ability to give something back to society through my work.

            What e.g. “made America great” (in the 50-60s) was that people’s work would get them something in return for it - a house, a family, college education for their kids, etc. - as opposed to today where other than rent work only buys the ability to purchase barely some food & weed, and many people have lost all hope of ever owning their own home, or getting healthcare.:-( I get it - that’s beyond fucked up. But what that means is that something was stolen from us (autonomy & freedom), not given (comfort & ease, e.g. look at Google search).

            TLDR: When we become reliant upon the machines, that’s when they own us rather than the other way around.

            • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              5 months ago

              we need some amount of balance in our lives to help make them worth living. What we gain in comfort there, we lose in autonomy,

              Is it really inherently a reduction in autonomy to remove compulsory labor from society using automation? Why? IMO the whole, spend your life in a job and get the American Dream in exchange thing, is not really freedom and is not much of a choice, even when the work to reward ratio is favorable. Being able to actually choose how your time is spent beyond picking between various jobs which all require you to live the same general sort of on-rails lifestyle could ideally mean a lot more autonomy than we’ve ever had, and there’s no reason I can see to think the result would have to be a bland culture of Wall-E style consumerist vacationers. Our imagination of leisure is defined by its nature as a brief reprieve from working life. Why should we be limited to that, if we had space to grow past it?

  • chetradley@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Is that right? To the average person, “Anti-Work” sounds like you’re straight up against working, and unless you want to explain this to every single person individually, Fox News is going to keep having a field day misrepresenting your movement.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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      5 months ago

      Leftists really suck at marketing. Between that, antifa, and defunding the police, they really don’t seem to know how to put a name to an idea that can’t be misconstrued by an opponent with the maturity of a 5 year old (which, as luck would have it, is most opposition). I’d even argue BLM should be on that list.

      Edit to add: global warming.

      • julietOscarEcho@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        Black lives matter is the least hyperbolic statement of that movement imaginable. That there was pushback even on that framing speaks more to the vile ess of its opponents than to a failure of marketing.

        You might want to put it on your list but it’s the opposite problem to your other examples if anything.

        • timmymac@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Yes, the problem is you create a bubble and look stupid when you talk about anything outside of your bubble.

    • HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Yeah, “Work Reform” is much better. There’s this weird trend of massively exaggerating a talking point, as the echo chamber seems incapable of thinking about any kind of optics or moderation

      • hglman@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        No work reform implies slightly different, which isn’t the point. Any message must make you question the system.

        • chetradley@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          If you’re marketing only to people with critical thinking skills you’ll miss most of the voting population, but you do you.

    • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Honestly that mod torpedoing the whole movement with a dumb interview and forcing the rebrand to work reform was probably one of the best things that could’ve happened.