I like today’s music but it seems derivative. Maybe I’m full of shit, and feel free to tell me why, but it seems like music from my dad’s youth (which I also like) was way different than mine, but nothing has changed that much since then.
You could take today’s music and put it on a radio station in the 90s and it wouldn’t seem out of place if you didn’t know any better. I don’t think the same is true for 90s music on a 60s or 70s station.
A good chunk of that is going to be because the 90’s was around the time when digital tools became accessible, good, industry wide things, and we haven’t had a kind of big musical innovation since that point, as far as the technology itself goes. That transition probably happened more noticeably in the 2000’s, but you could tell it was happening over the course of the 90’s for sure. The music industry has also not changed that much, we’re still very much living in that reagan kind of neoliberal huge music label era, but that’s kind of been around forever, so I kind of doubt that’s been a major change from the 60’s up to now. You could maybe say that streaming and the internet has changed music, and it certainly has, because now there are no gatekeepers, everyone listens to everything, and lots of artists put out like, a 10 minute single that changes styles six times so it might be propagated better online, instead of like a 90 minute experimental album. But then, there are more room for both of them, because people are more easily able to find what they want, and the latter was never gonna be mainstream anyways.
If I had to point out a larger genre shift, there has definitely been a large mainstreaming of rap and this kind of “pop country” more recently. You had those in the 90’s, kind of infamously, but hootie and the blowfish does not really sound like modern country through some cultural progression that I don’t really understand because I’m not brushed up on it. NWA and Tupac do not sound the same as modern rap, which has been getting a lot more of a “soft” kind of vibe, which I’d probably attribute to the influence of like, kanye, and maybe some lo-fi stuff like nujabes, and maybe just a mainstreaming of the genre at large. The subject matter has shifted, the tone has shifted, and the music itself has changed. Those genres would not sound the same, relative to their 90’s counterparts.
The biggest thing I can think of that probably makes 60’s and 70’s music sound out of place next to 90’s music is probably how hair metal got killed by grunge, which I couldn’t really attribute to any one reason in particular. There’s a pretty clear line between your rock acts, which have been going forever, and your later metal acts, and that line still exists with grunge, but grunge marks a kind of tonal shift. You’d also have to ignore the whole of disco and club music, that motown shit from the 70’s and 80’s, which died out pretty hard, but most everyone does that anyways, so who cares. I don’t know if I’ve heard many 70’s or 80’s stations that actually play disco, certainly, not in proportion to how popular it was, usually they just play like. Stevie wonder, from what I’ve heard, shit like that. Or MJ. The thing you could probably derive from disco, from the 70’s and 80’s into the 90’s, would probably be like, drum and bass, and eurobeat, stuff like that, and then you’d get stuff like daft punk later on which has a pretty clear connection to disco generally.
I dunno, this is all to say, shit has substantially changed in almost every mainstream genre I can think of in the last like, 60 years, from the 60’s. Some stuff has remained pretty similar, and some stuff has had an almost cyclical nature, but that’s just kind of the nature of music, I think.
That’s an interesting point about the accessibility of digital tools. Without a completely new way to craft a sound nothing could sound all that different.
Although I do like “real” country music (sorry about the gatekeeping) “pop country”, Nashville pop, or whatever you want to call it, is the one genre of music I dislike the whole of. I guess it’s different from other country but it’s similar enough to generic pop I wouldn’t consider it new.
I do agree about rap/hip-hop though. The artists I listen to now are very different than what I listened to in the 90s and there is a much wider variety of style. I wonder how much of that is due to how easy it is to discover new artists now. Back in the 90s learning about underground rap artists, or underground anything, wasn’t easy.
So strange that everyone looks back at hip-hop in the 90s and 90% of the time it’s about stuff like Tupac and NWA, while another parallel current with bands such as De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest and Arrested Development gets overlooked.
Those bands were extraordinary, like Hip Hop in a tradition of Stevie Wonder, and kept putting out excellent albums that sound just as fresh today and are just as influential as anything from that era, but mid-decade the music industry swept them aside swiftly and unceremoniously, to make way for West Coast and Gangsta Rap.
I didn’t mean to suggest 90s rap was one-dimensional but it does seem like there is more variety now. But I wasn’t in an environment where I could buy local/touring hip hop tapes out of the trunk of a car, where I was that sort of thing was mostly punk and metal, so I never experienced all there was to offer. Maybe what I perceive as an increase is just due to streaming services making discovery so much easier.
Oh, I didn’t mean you, sorry if that’s the impression I gave, I was just pondering on things the way I’m remembering them.
Now that you mention “tapes out of a car”, before the internet there was another way that music spread in those days, for those of us who lived in smaller cities. Somebody would go to the cool city and take along his portable stereo, record tapes of the cool radio station, then back in town those tapes would circulate and get copied like bootlegs.
From LA in the 80s, it was KROQ with Punk, Post-Punk (The Stranglers, Joy Division) and Technopop (Depeche Mode, Human League, etc.).
In the 90s it was MARS FM with Techno and House.
I can only imagine the Hip-Hop that was being played in low-power radio stations in places like NYC or Philly.
A friend used to go to San Francisco every summer, brought back a bunch of tapes from the LIVE 105 graveyard shift, all carefully catalogued with dates, DJs and playlists. It was like KROQ but more subtle and varied, listening to those tapes felt exotic and meaningful.
One time he brought back a tape of KFJC, one where I first heard things like Liquid Liquid and Pharoah Sanders; that one felt like my mind got a firmware upgrade. Extraordinary.
Since the internet and starting with Real Player, now the entire world is at our fingertips (and ears), and I’m glad about this, but I will forever be grateful for those tapes from back when we weren’t directly plugged into “the action”.
The best radio stations to me today, the ones that keep me compelled, are ones that mix freely from all eras (including this one) and genres. Try BBC Radio 6 Music, or WPRB (from Princeton University), Soho Radio.
From what I hear on these stations, where DJs are expected to fearlessly put on whatever they like, it seems, the music of today sounds just as good as from any other era, but for me it’s always been about discovery, and sometimes that includes being a little uncomfortable, I like to teach my mind a new groove every once in a while and it has been known to resist. It happens to all of us, I’m afraid, more and more as we get older.
That said, I can comfortably be against some music industry tendencies, there is no “pop utopia” in the past.
Last decade it’s been software tools like autotune; in the 90s the “volume wars” began and frankly, most USA rock sounds too similar, all trying to channel Led Zep and Black Sabbath through a punkish filter; in the 80s many bands were overproduced half to death, submerged in sonic synthetic fluff, all the new studio toys abused, layer upon layer upon layer.
In the proper hands, these technologies can help a piece of music shine brighter, but in the hands of producers following the bandwagon - and that’s always been the majority of 'em - everything ends up sounding the same, like neon ads all around you.
I think if you take today’s pop music and do a side by side comparison with 90s pop you’d be surprised by how different they are. Not to mention, there are many many electronic genres and subgenres around today that have arisen in recent years.
Not Nirvana, wrong genre. But it wouldn’t be out of place on one of my metal stations, but I don’t have to wait for that because now I have a station based on them, thank you for that.
But Morbid Angel came up after a few songs (to be fair it was a more recent song) and that’s kind of my point. Stations based on a 90s band will get me recent stuff and vice versa. If I make a Who station, Elvis doesn’t come up. If I make a Joplin station, L7 doesn’t come up. You usually get a pretty narrow time frame for anything pre-90s, after that it’s anything goes.
That’s not to say Igorrr sounds exactly like anyone from 30 years ago, but it’s an evolution as opposed to a revolution.
Edit: several songs later I got NIN, Mr. Self Destruct, it doesn’t get much more 90s than that.
I like today’s music but it seems derivative. Maybe I’m full of shit, and feel free to tell me why, but it seems like music from my dad’s youth (which I also like) was way different than mine, but nothing has changed that much since then.
You could take today’s music and put it on a radio station in the 90s and it wouldn’t seem out of place if you didn’t know any better. I don’t think the same is true for 90s music on a 60s or 70s station.
A good chunk of that is going to be because the 90’s was around the time when digital tools became accessible, good, industry wide things, and we haven’t had a kind of big musical innovation since that point, as far as the technology itself goes. That transition probably happened more noticeably in the 2000’s, but you could tell it was happening over the course of the 90’s for sure. The music industry has also not changed that much, we’re still very much living in that reagan kind of neoliberal huge music label era, but that’s kind of been around forever, so I kind of doubt that’s been a major change from the 60’s up to now. You could maybe say that streaming and the internet has changed music, and it certainly has, because now there are no gatekeepers, everyone listens to everything, and lots of artists put out like, a 10 minute single that changes styles six times so it might be propagated better online, instead of like a 90 minute experimental album. But then, there are more room for both of them, because people are more easily able to find what they want, and the latter was never gonna be mainstream anyways.
If I had to point out a larger genre shift, there has definitely been a large mainstreaming of rap and this kind of “pop country” more recently. You had those in the 90’s, kind of infamously, but hootie and the blowfish does not really sound like modern country through some cultural progression that I don’t really understand because I’m not brushed up on it. NWA and Tupac do not sound the same as modern rap, which has been getting a lot more of a “soft” kind of vibe, which I’d probably attribute to the influence of like, kanye, and maybe some lo-fi stuff like nujabes, and maybe just a mainstreaming of the genre at large. The subject matter has shifted, the tone has shifted, and the music itself has changed. Those genres would not sound the same, relative to their 90’s counterparts.
The biggest thing I can think of that probably makes 60’s and 70’s music sound out of place next to 90’s music is probably how hair metal got killed by grunge, which I couldn’t really attribute to any one reason in particular. There’s a pretty clear line between your rock acts, which have been going forever, and your later metal acts, and that line still exists with grunge, but grunge marks a kind of tonal shift. You’d also have to ignore the whole of disco and club music, that motown shit from the 70’s and 80’s, which died out pretty hard, but most everyone does that anyways, so who cares. I don’t know if I’ve heard many 70’s or 80’s stations that actually play disco, certainly, not in proportion to how popular it was, usually they just play like. Stevie wonder, from what I’ve heard, shit like that. Or MJ. The thing you could probably derive from disco, from the 70’s and 80’s into the 90’s, would probably be like, drum and bass, and eurobeat, stuff like that, and then you’d get stuff like daft punk later on which has a pretty clear connection to disco generally.
I dunno, this is all to say, shit has substantially changed in almost every mainstream genre I can think of in the last like, 60 years, from the 60’s. Some stuff has remained pretty similar, and some stuff has had an almost cyclical nature, but that’s just kind of the nature of music, I think.
That’s an interesting point about the accessibility of digital tools. Without a completely new way to craft a sound nothing could sound all that different.
Although I do like “real” country music (sorry about the gatekeeping) “pop country”, Nashville pop, or whatever you want to call it, is the one genre of music I dislike the whole of. I guess it’s different from other country but it’s similar enough to generic pop I wouldn’t consider it new.
I do agree about rap/hip-hop though. The artists I listen to now are very different than what I listened to in the 90s and there is a much wider variety of style. I wonder how much of that is due to how easy it is to discover new artists now. Back in the 90s learning about underground rap artists, or underground anything, wasn’t easy.
So strange that everyone looks back at hip-hop in the 90s and 90% of the time it’s about stuff like Tupac and NWA, while another parallel current with bands such as De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest and Arrested Development gets overlooked.
Those bands were extraordinary, like Hip Hop in a tradition of Stevie Wonder, and kept putting out excellent albums that sound just as fresh today and are just as influential as anything from that era, but mid-decade the music industry swept them aside swiftly and unceremoniously, to make way for West Coast and Gangsta Rap.
I didn’t mean to suggest 90s rap was one-dimensional but it does seem like there is more variety now. But I wasn’t in an environment where I could buy local/touring hip hop tapes out of the trunk of a car, where I was that sort of thing was mostly punk and metal, so I never experienced all there was to offer. Maybe what I perceive as an increase is just due to streaming services making discovery so much easier.
Oh, I didn’t mean you, sorry if that’s the impression I gave, I was just pondering on things the way I’m remembering them.
Now that you mention “tapes out of a car”, before the internet there was another way that music spread in those days, for those of us who lived in smaller cities. Somebody would go to the cool city and take along his portable stereo, record tapes of the cool radio station, then back in town those tapes would circulate and get copied like bootlegs.
From LA in the 80s, it was KROQ with Punk, Post-Punk (The Stranglers, Joy Division) and Technopop (Depeche Mode, Human League, etc.).
In the 90s it was MARS FM with Techno and House.
I can only imagine the Hip-Hop that was being played in low-power radio stations in places like NYC or Philly.
A friend used to go to San Francisco every summer, brought back a bunch of tapes from the LIVE 105 graveyard shift, all carefully catalogued with dates, DJs and playlists. It was like KROQ but more subtle and varied, listening to those tapes felt exotic and meaningful.
One time he brought back a tape of KFJC, one where I first heard things like Liquid Liquid and Pharoah Sanders; that one felt like my mind got a firmware upgrade. Extraordinary.
Since the internet and starting with Real Player, now the entire world is at our fingertips (and ears), and I’m glad about this, but I will forever be grateful for those tapes from back when we weren’t directly plugged into “the action”.
The best radio stations to me today, the ones that keep me compelled, are ones that mix freely from all eras (including this one) and genres. Try BBC Radio 6 Music, or WPRB (from Princeton University), Soho Radio.
From what I hear on these stations, where DJs are expected to fearlessly put on whatever they like, it seems, the music of today sounds just as good as from any other era, but for me it’s always been about discovery, and sometimes that includes being a little uncomfortable, I like to teach my mind a new groove every once in a while and it has been known to resist. It happens to all of us, I’m afraid, more and more as we get older.
That said, I can comfortably be against some music industry tendencies, there is no “pop utopia” in the past.
Last decade it’s been software tools like autotune; in the 90s the “volume wars” began and frankly, most USA rock sounds too similar, all trying to channel Led Zep and Black Sabbath through a punkish filter; in the 80s many bands were overproduced half to death, submerged in sonic synthetic fluff, all the new studio toys abused, layer upon layer upon layer.
In the proper hands, these technologies can help a piece of music shine brighter, but in the hands of producers following the bandwagon - and that’s always been the majority of 'em - everything ends up sounding the same, like neon ads all around you.
I think if you take today’s pop music and do a side by side comparison with 90s pop you’d be surprised by how different they are. Not to mention, there are many many electronic genres and subgenres around today that have arisen in recent years.
Autotune, more explicit woman pop artists, mumble rap, whatever the fuck “thrift shop” is, country rap, k-pop.
Also noticed much older genres being modernized a bit with the likes of Tyler Childers (a little bluegrass-like) and All Them Witches (psychedelic).
here’s an album from 2020.
https://igorrr.bandcamp.com/album/spirituality-and-distortion
You think this will fit in next to nirvana?
Not Nirvana, wrong genre. But it wouldn’t be out of place on one of my metal stations, but I don’t have to wait for that because now I have a station based on them, thank you for that.
But Morbid Angel came up after a few songs (to be fair it was a more recent song) and that’s kind of my point. Stations based on a 90s band will get me recent stuff and vice versa. If I make a Who station, Elvis doesn’t come up. If I make a Joplin station, L7 doesn’t come up. You usually get a pretty narrow time frame for anything pre-90s, after that it’s anything goes.
That’s not to say Igorrr sounds exactly like anyone from 30 years ago, but it’s an evolution as opposed to a revolution.
Edit: several songs later I got NIN, Mr. Self Destruct, it doesn’t get much more 90s than that.