Sure. But if you listen to what people who lived in the Soviet Union have to say, they very clearly reference the more robust system, the pride they had as workers, and the high valuation on science and humanity. These aren’t mere nostalgic platitudes, they were lived reality for hundreds of millions of workers. That’s a valid feeling.
You’ll also find people talking about the food lines and the rationing, the envy of western abundance, the countless crackdowns on freedom and liberties, the famines, etc…
Call me woke, but I think feeding the people is a good thing. The capitalist alternative is just letting hungry people starve. Many did envy western trinkets, but when said abundance was built on imperialism, rather than the workers in the west, it’s not exactly a sustainable practice. Looking above, the woman is reminiscing on free apartments and education. The advanced social safety net under socialism increased freedom and liberties, creating far more individual autonomy. No idea what you mean by famine, the soviets eradicated famine and for those who lived in the socialist bloc, famine is out of living memory.
Most western european countries had better social safety than the soviet union, and have to this day. If the point is that it feels the trend is getting worse, then I agree.
You required permission to gather above a certain number and only allowed if it were approved by the party, no matter how well fed you were.There was also a constant surveillance state, and state police enforcement, which yes, we are getting there now too.
As for the famines, you had holodomor and “the great leap forward”.
I will not defend capitalism, but these issues were definitely a staple of most communist regimes.
“As for famines, you had (the last two famines ever to occur in their historically famine-prone regions shortly after communist takeover)”
If the communists took over a capitalist-owned neighborhood where stabbings had been a common occurrence for as long as anyone could remember, and then one more stabbing happened and then never again, would you say the communists caused stabbings or in fact ended stabbings?
It isn’t actually true that most western European countries had better safety nets, and more importantly western European safety nets came from the spoils of imperialism, rather than their own working classes. The soviets were anti-imperialist and provided what they could based on what they could actually produce themselves.
As for famine, neither the 1930s famine in the USSR or even the Great Leap Forward are living memory. Both the USSR and China abolished famine in countries where famine was historically common through industrialization and collectivization of agriculture. Socialism did not cause famine, it ended it.
Lol you will not, because this is a cartoon list of Commie Shit from someone who has never looked into any of it. Cmon man “crackdown on freedom and liberties”? Really? You sound like an animatronic of JFK.
Their point seems to be that a socialist country did some bad things not inherent to any ideology, ergo communism is bad.
It’s the same childish logic my old nan used to justify her racism. She was mugged by a black man in her youth, therefore she believed all non-whites were bad. Humans can be quite dim.
Really? Cause I know a couple who don’t. They were born during a forty year period of martial law and anticommunist terror where even expressing the desire for people to have their needs met could get you thrown in a concentration camp or disappeared into the jungle.
You’re right, data is king. So what does the data say about the opinions people who lived through those times? Oh right, you’ve already dismissed that as “old people missing their childhoods”.
Of course, if they were saying the opposite, that communism was awful and capitalism was better, you would have no trouble taking them at their word.
The vast majority of old people miss their childhood.
Sure. But if you listen to what people who lived in the Soviet Union have to say, they very clearly reference the more robust system, the pride they had as workers, and the high valuation on science and humanity. These aren’t mere nostalgic platitudes, they were lived reality for hundreds of millions of workers. That’s a valid feeling.
You’ll also find people talking about the food lines and the rationing, the envy of western abundance, the countless crackdowns on freedom and liberties, the famines, etc…
Call me woke, but I think feeding the people is a good thing. The capitalist alternative is just letting hungry people starve. Many did envy western trinkets, but when said abundance was built on imperialism, rather than the workers in the west, it’s not exactly a sustainable practice. Looking above, the woman is reminiscing on free apartments and education. The advanced social safety net under socialism increased freedom and liberties, creating far more individual autonomy. No idea what you mean by famine, the soviets eradicated famine and for those who lived in the socialist bloc, famine is out of living memory.
Most western european countries had better social safety than the soviet union, and have to this day. If the point is that it feels the trend is getting worse, then I agree.
You required permission to gather above a certain number and only allowed if it were approved by the party, no matter how well fed you were.There was also a constant surveillance state, and state police enforcement, which yes, we are getting there now too.
As for the famines, you had holodomor and “the great leap forward”.
I will not defend capitalism, but these issues were definitely a staple of most communist regimes.
“As for famines, you had (the last two famines ever to occur in their historically famine-prone regions shortly after communist takeover)”
If the communists took over a capitalist-owned neighborhood where stabbings had been a common occurrence for as long as anyone could remember, and then one more stabbing happened and then never again, would you say the communists caused stabbings or in fact ended stabbings?
Yeah, but the last stabbing was extra stabby!
It isn’t actually true that most western European countries had better safety nets, and more importantly western European safety nets came from the spoils of imperialism, rather than their own working classes. The soviets were anti-imperialist and provided what they could based on what they could actually produce themselves.
As for famine, neither the 1930s famine in the USSR or even the Great Leap Forward are living memory. Both the USSR and China abolished famine in countries where famine was historically common through industrialization and collectivization of agriculture. Socialism did not cause famine, it ended it.
How did they come to have a better social safety net? Where did the money and resources come from?
Lol you will not, because this is a cartoon list of Commie Shit from someone who has never looked into any of it. Cmon man “crackdown on freedom and liberties”? Really? You sound like an animatronic of JFK.
One party system, the cultural revolution, the gulags, the great purge. I don’t understand how that’s even disputable.
Slavery, COINTELPRO, Vietnam, the Kent State Massacre. I don’t understand how that’s even disputable.
I don’t know man, maybe because you’re just invoking the mere existence of events and then just…not saying anything? Genuinely, what is your point?
Their point seems to be that a socialist country did some bad things not inherent to any ideology, ergo communism is bad.
It’s the same childish logic my old nan used to justify her racism. She was mugged by a black man in her youth, therefore she believed all non-whites were bad. Humans can be quite dim.
Lol. Can’t even keep your anti communist talking points straight
Really? Cause I know a couple who don’t. They were born during a forty year period of martial law and anticommunist terror where even expressing the desire for people to have their needs met could get you thrown in a concentration camp or disappeared into the jungle.
I also know people that lived through my country’s fascist period and seemingly “things were better back then”…
These anecdotal evidences mean little, you’ll find someone with the opposing opinion or experience.
You’re right, data is king. So what does the data say about the opinions people who lived through those times? Oh right, you’ve already dismissed that as “old people missing their childhoods”.
Of course, if they were saying the opposite, that communism was awful and capitalism was better, you would have no trouble taking them at their word.
You will not get me defending capitalism. But wont white wash communist regimes neither.
Nobody’s asking you to whitewash anything, you are being asked to stop participating in the debunked capitalist blackwashing of communism.