• k0e3@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    2 months ago

    It’s not that we aren’t ashamed. We are ashamed so we deny it. It’s fucking pathetic.

  • lath@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 months ago

    To be unbiased, raping and pillaging are unsaid standards even in today’s conflicts, let alone before the Geneva convention was adopted and subsequently ignored.

    • PugJesus@piefed.socialM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      The issue is that Japan did so at a horrific and systemic level that were shocking even 80 years ago, much less today. Hell, they would’ve made some medieval polities’ blood run cold.

      • lath@piefed.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        I’m not informed on the details. Was it much worse than nazi Germany concentration camps? The US segregation laws or their centuries long slavery system? The Soviet or Chinese complete disregard of human life in relation to the state? The poorly documented atrocities which happened across the African continent?

        Every nation has its share of horrific acts in their history and some of them pine for or defend those periods of time as if a reason for glory.

        I mean the Mongol Horde is known for having killed around 10% of the human population at the time and raped their way around Eurasia and we don’t see people reacting with shock and horror all that much.

        Now my information is incomplete and likely incorrect in parts, but I really don’t see how the Japanese horror is much worse than all the other horrors happening in the last centuries or so.

        • PugJesus@piefed.socialM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          I’m not informed on the details. Was it much worse than nazi Germany concentration camps?

          Depends on your point of view.

          The US segregation laws or their centuries long slavery system? The Soviet or Chinese complete disregard of human life in relation to the state?

          Yes. Yes.

          The poorly documented atrocities which happened across the African continent?

          Probably everything short of the Belgian Congo, yes.

          Every nation has its share of horrific acts in their history and some of them pine for or defend those periods of time as if a reason for glory.

          Okay, but we generally look down on those who pine for or defend Nazi Concentration Camps and recognize the Holocaust as an exceptional atrocity in world history.

          The same counts for the Japanese Empire in the late Interwar period and WW2.

          I mean the Mongol Horde is known for having killed around 10% of the human population at the time and raped their way around Eurasia and we don’t see people reacting with shock and horror all that much.

          1. The Mongols are very often cited by people to this day when conjuring up metaphors of barbarism and atrocity.

          2. The idea of the Mongols as exceptionally murderous is not supported by modern histories, and is largely, in Western histories, an artifact of “Yellow Peril” racism from the 18th century AD onwards.

          3. The idea of the Mongols as exceptional rapists was never anything more than bad pop history.

          Now my information is incomplete and likely incorrect in parts, but I really don’t see how the Japanese horror is much worse than all the other horrors happening in the last centuries or so.

          In one example on November 23, the Nanqiantou hamlet near Wuxi was set on fire, with many of its inhabitants locked within the burning houses. Two women, one a 17-year-old girl and the other pregnant, were raped repeatedly until they could not walk. Afterwards, the soldiers rammed a broom into the teenager’s vagina and stabbed her with a bayonet, then “cut open the belly of the pregnant woman and gouged out the fetus”. A crying two-year-old boy was wrestled from his mother’s arms and thrown into the flames, while the hysterically sobbing mother was bayoneted and thrown into a creek.

          “We’d take all the men behind the houses and kill them with bayonets and knives. Then we’d lock up the women and children in a single house and rape them at night… Then, before we left the next morning, we’d kill all the women and children, and to top it off, we’d set fire to the houses, so that even if anyone came back, they wouldn’t have a place to live.”

          Perhaps the most notorious atrocity was a killing contest between two Japanese officers as reported in the Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun and the English-language Japan Advertiser. The contest—a race between the two officers to see who could kill 100 people first using only a sword—was covered much like a sporting event with regular updates on the score over a series of days.

          I figured that I’d never get another chance like this, so I stabbed thirty of the damned Chinks. Climbing atop the mountain of corpses, I felt like a real devil-slayer, stabbing again and again, with all my might. ‘Ugh, ugh,’ the Chinks groaned. There were old folks as well as kids, but we killed them lock, stock, and barrel. I also borrowed a buddy’s sword and tried to decapitate some. I’ve never experienced anything so unusual.

          The Straw String Gorge Massacre occurred along the banks of the Yangtze River on December 18. For most of the morning, Japanese soldiers tied the POWs’ hands together. At dusk, the soldiers divided POWs into four columns and opened fire. Unable to escape, the POWs could only scream and thrash desperately. It took an hour for the sounds of death to stop and even longer for the Japanese to bayonet each individual. The majority of the bodies were dumped directly into the Yangtze River.[75]

          In many other instances, prisoners were decapitated, used for bayonet practice, or tied together, doused in gasoline and set on fire. Wounded Chinese soldiers who remained in the city were killed in their hospital beds, bayonetted, clubbed, or dragged outside and burned alive.[76]

          The Japanese also extended their “search-and-destroy” operations to the Nanjing countryside. During the Battle of Nanjing, one of the Cantonese (Guangdong) armies had broken out of the Japanese encirclement and formed guerrilla bands that harassed Japanese forces whilst retreating south. In retaliation, Japanese units systemically wiped out towns and villages spread out in the outlying regions, perpetrating rapes, arson and indiscriminate massacres which “added up to an enormous number” of deaths.[77]

          Japanese troops gathered 1,300 Chinese soldiers and civilians at Taiping Gate and murdered them. The victims were blown up with landmines, then doused with petrol and set on fire. The survivors were killed with bayonets.[78]

          • lath@piefed.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            Good examples. Can they be considered as a form of proof for what happens when xenophobia and isolationism take root and control the structure of society? I’m seeing a lot of detachment and the cruelty of racism in full display.

            • Uruanna@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 months ago

              Kinda. Japan did have some long standing bad blood with Korea and China before that - but we’re talking a thousand years before. Centuries during which Japan pushed on its own internal war culture. Isolation did help a lot with that attitude, but here we’re talking about the period immediately after Europe shattered Japan’s glass bottle, so this particular forced opening was actually really really bad. Then they modernized and went on a rampage.

              They started with some mild xenophobia because of chaotic immigration a thousand and a half years ago, fought off an invasion that pushed them further in, then Buddhism broke its way in, then Japan went full isolationism for 250 years, then the outside world broke that and caused further xenophobia, and that’s how this ended. So it’s more like they tried to quell one down with the other, and when the outside forced its way in with humiliation, they lashed out.

              • lath@piefed.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                That sounds to me like a cycle of abuse. An oversimplification would be someone who feels bullied eventually retaliating with something much worse against the world itself.

                • Uruanna@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  They went that hard also specifically because of the culture they had been boiling themselves into for a thousand years - life and death, hierarchy, the complete lack of value for an individual life, especially if they’re not nobility. They were doing that to themselves first with spears and swords and bows, and then when the outside world forced them to modernize, they took the guns and the chemical crap and did that to everyone around them. And they were good at disregarding all human life. At the very beginning, it’s the result of this culture they locked themselves in, where death and life lost value (thanks Buddhism, also a way to cope with what the powerful were doing to the poor); their history with Korea and China a thousand years ago then with Europe and the US is just a thing that happened to them on top of that.

                  The isolationism part, both 1300 years ago and 400 years ago, was adopted because lots of war was happening on the mainland that caused a lot of people to flee to Japan, and then because Europe was pushing religion. Isolation was not an unfair conclusion, if heavy-handed. Xenophobia is bad, isolationism is bad, being victimized and invaded is bad, militaristic culture is bad, religious extremism is bad, but I don’t know if you can pinpoint it on one thing. It all just came down to a really bad mix.